Explain what moral relativism is

Forum Wk3
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This week we look at moral relativism, or the belief that morals are individual and/or cultural and not something shared by all people.
Here’s a one-minute video giving a quick but accurate explanation of individual and cultural moral relativism: LINK (Links to an external site.).
And here is a quick video by Audiopedia that accurately explains moral absolutism as compared to moral relativism and moral objectivism: LINK (Links to an external site.).
In 2013, Pope Francis said that moral relativism “endangers the coexistence of peoples.” He said what we need for peaceful coexistence is “a common ethics based
on human nature.” He called moral relativism a kind of “dictatorship” that endangers the world (Catherine Harmon, 2013; for source click link (Links to an external site.)).
In her 2014 book called Plato at the Googleplex, Rebecca Goldstien wrote: “There used to be things that everybody thought were okay, and then just about everybody changed
their minds about them, and could see that they were flat-out wrong.” And then she asked: “So how did that happen?” (Goldstein, Pantheon Books, NY, p.113).
So, let’s talk about it. Answer the first question and then your choice of either question
2 or question 3:
1. Speak with a friend, fellow worker, or family member about today’s moral values. Do they think we have a problem with moral decay today and what examples would they
give to show it’s a fact? Explain what moral relativism is and ask them if they see it as dangerous, beneficial, or neither and why.
2. Consider the quote above from Rebecca Goldstein and answer the following: What would you give as an example of what she says everyone used to think was okay but
now we don’t? Does this view of moral history support the idea of moral relativism or not? In other words, if we believe we’ve made some moral progress in history, would
that suggest we are moral relativists or that we believe in some objective moral values?
3. Without getting into politics and without being disrespectful of others, would you describe President Donald Trump as a moral relativist, moral absolutist, or something
else morally? And why? This is simply trying to describe what we see as factual and not trying to judge whether it’s good or bad at this point.
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Collapse SubdiscussionMiguelina Marte Paulino
Miguelina Marte Paulino
MondayJan 20 at 2:41pm
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Good Afternoon Class
1. Speak with a friend, fellow worker, or family member about today’s moral
values. Do they think we have a problem with moral decay today and what
examples would they give to show it’s a fact? Explain what moral relativism is
and ask them if they see it as dangerous, beneficial, or neither and why
I ask my father about today’s moral values, and this was his response, “ I don’t think
people especially kids and teenagers have a good sense of what is morality and
values, I believe at some point society has lost the good manners and what is good
behavior. In my times we could distinguish between right and wrong and I don’t feel
today we can say the same thing.”For example, people forget to treat others as you
want to be treated, and even don’t take responsibility for their own actions, like
stealing for mention one thing or abusing someone. Moral relativism is whether your
judgment can be true or false. To be honest, I see as a balance, it can be good but
for some situations, it can be bad, it depends on the point of view you see it, and
where you stand. 2. Consider the quote above from Rebecca Goldstein and answer
the following: What would you give as an example of what she says everyone used
to think was okay but now we don’t? Does this view of moral history support the
idea of moral relativism or not? In other words, if we believe we’ve made some
moral progress in history, would that suggest we are moral relativists or that we
believe in some objective moral values? I will switch this a little bit, one of the things
society use to argue was morally wrong and was topic of so many discussion was
abortion, and now with planned parenthood and other organization and many
women marching for their (our) rights that’s our body our decision, now we can see
abortion as it used to be wrong and now is ok and I say ok because still there are
some countries that abortion is considered illegal. Throughout the time I believe we
became more objective, we became kinder and more flexible with abortion, objective
values those that lie outside of the individual and are not dependent upon her/his
perception or belief. Work Cited
Great Philosophers: Plato II – Objective Values,
oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl201/modules/Philosophers/Plato/plato02_objective_valu
es.html.
Miguelina
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Collapse SubdiscussionJesenia Pino
Jesenia Pino
MondayJan 20 at 8:18pm
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Hi Miguelina,
I agree with your post yes with society and abortion there are many choices we can
make for ourselves, our bodies , our choice, but is it really? People look down at you
for getting an abortion you had a choice before you got pregnant. With so many
protest in today’s world and with antiabortion have we really become more objective
to this subject. Most people will still find this topic morally wrong, yes its more
common than it was back in the day but with everyone still has their moral values on
what is right and what is wrong in their eyes this subject is still making progress.
Jesenia
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Collapse SubdiscussionMiguelina Marte Paulino
Miguelina Marte Paulino
TuesdayJan 21 at 3:50pm
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Hi Jesenia
This topic always has some morality controversy, but I still strongly believe it is that
person body their choices, even though some people will argue you should have use
contraceptive if you going to say ” my body my choice”, but is a big dilemma when it
comes to abortion.
Miguelina
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Collapse SubdiscussionMarek Suchocki
Marek Suchocki
TuesdayJan 21 at 12:30pm
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Miguelina,
Would you consider Rebecca Goldstein’s statement and your example as a moral
progress, improvement, or an articulation of ethical relativism?
Prof. Suchocki
P.S. Please use paragraphs in longer posts to make them more “readable”.
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Collapse SubdiscussionMiguelina Marte Paulino
Miguelina Marte Paulino
TuesdayJan 21 at 4:08pm
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Prof. Suchocki
Thanks for the feedback
I will have to say there is some improvement, regarding the statement Rebecca
Goldstein’s said that “There used to be things that everybody thought were okay,
and then just about everybody changed their minds about them, and could see that
they were flat-out wrong.”
With my example I see it as the opposite, abortion was seen as morally wrong, and
nowadays that opinion has changed a little bit regarding abortion, still is view wrong
to the eyes of the population.
Surveys show that most Americans support a woman’s right to have an abortion.
Last month, the latest survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation (Links to an external
site.) found that 67 percent of those polled (Links to an external site.)supported Roe
v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court ruling that supported abortion rights under the
constitutional right to privacy.
Work Cited
Fox, Maggie. “Abortion in the U.S.: Five Key Facts.” NBCNews.com, NBCUniversal
News Group, 6 July 2018, www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/abortion-u-sfive-key-facts-n889111 (Links to an external site.).
Miguelina
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Collapse SubdiscussionJesenia Pino
Jesenia Pino
MondayJan 20 at 8:08pm
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0. Speak with a friend, fellow worker, or family member about today’s moral
values. Do they think we have a problem with moral decay today and what
examples would they give to show it’s a fact?
My mother`s response to today’s moral values. In today’s society there is a lack of
respect, especially with social media more involved in today’s world. Everyone has
their own morals and its competitive, you still need to listen to everyone’s values you
may never considered before. Also, when someone is judgmental you do not explore
other possibilities in life everything is not just black and white. Parents need to
explore better values with children today, its not just the society that lacking its the
parenting. If parents taught children not to bully classmates and to respect one
another like in the past today’s world would be a lot safer. Thus, if we look back over
past centuries, we will likely find that when viewed in historical perspective, some
conditions were better, whereas others were worse. Nevertheless, something very
different and very serious—indeed, unprecedented—happened during the 20th
century and is still happening. (Are Morals Worse Than Before?, 2000)
3. Without getting into politics and without being disrespectful of others, would you
describe President Donald Trump as a moral relativist, moral absolutist, or
something else morally? And why? This is simply trying to describe what we
see as factual and not trying to judge whether it’s good or bad at this
point. President Trump is a moral absolutist because he is only on his own
option and doesn’t listen to other people’s suggestions. President Trump he is
right on every situation he comes across and thinks the decisions he makes will
make the world a better place. I feel that Trump is racist on Spanish people he
had commented on one of his campaigns that Mexicans only bring drugs and
crime to the US. The only comment was, “He gets things done.” Be that as it
may, this person prides her/himself as being Christian. Trump’s behavior,
commentary, and braggadocio are decidedly not. (My Barbaric Yawp, 2018)
References
Are Morals Worse Than Before? (2000, 08 02). Retrieved from
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102000242
My Barbaric Yawp. (2018, 7 25). Retrieved from https://www.andrewtkemp.com/mybarbaric-yawp/donald-trump-and-the-rise-of-moral-relativism#
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Collapse SubdiscussionMarek Suchocki
Marek Suchocki
TuesdayJan 21 at 12:32pm
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Jesenia,
Good references.
How would you define absolutism? (eText, p. 51)
Prof. Suchocki
P.S. Please address and sign your posts.
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Collapse SubdiscussionMiguelina Marte Paulino
Miguelina Marte Paulino
TuesdayJan 21 at 4:14pm
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Hello Jesenia
It is funny that my father also told me the same as your mother did, that today there
is no respect for almost nothing, and that social media have a part to do with that.
I also think that President Trump is a moral absolutist because he just can not listen
outside his bubble. As a Spanish, there is a lot I can think but I don’t want we get into
politics, but I feel his slogan says a lot of what he thinks he is doing.
Miguelina
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Collapse SubdiscussionJay Abderrahim
Jay Abderrahim
YesterdayJan 22 at 7:42pm
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Hello Professor and Class ,
Today I had spoken to my mother about the differences between kids today and
from when she began her career as a teacher over 40 years ago . She responed by
saying the lack of respect for anything and anyone, she also went on to say that
work ethic among her students was slowly declining and that now in 2020 it has
become a serious issue . I also spoke with a personal training client of mine who
also is an elementary school teacher and not suprislingly her answer was the same
. It is sad when two people in the same profession , one that is crucial for our
development in our younger years had the same opinion about kids today and the
attitudes they convey towards figures of authority and lacking the proper work ethic
needed to succeed in life . Moral Reltivism are morals based on the individual and
culture . Growing up I was exposed to two very different cultures due to my father
being a palestinian muslim and my mother an italian catholic . Throughout my life I
saw both sides of the how the cultures lived . What my father may deem
innapropriate such as something my sister might be wearing or the type of music I
listened to my mother would find perfectly acceptable . Thankfully my parents were
divocred so growing up that was never an issue but I could only imagine how things
would have been for us with two cultures clashing about what is right and wrong . In
that sense I feel it can be dangerous , sometimes that moral view can take a turn for
the worst and when you look at history these differing viewpoints have caused wars
caused coutless numbers of lives to be lost .
I belive Donald Trump to be a moral relativist . While his methods are very
unorthodox I belive the man lives by his own set of beliefs and is not afraid to share
them with the world . I dont belive he hates people of certain gender , color, or
creed , when he speaks to americans he is speaking to every american not just one
sector . I did not vote for him nor am I very big into politics but from what I have seen
the man just wants to help America in the long run . Take the time and move past
the impeachment stories and find some of the postive stories of him signing trade
deals that will bring money into our country and will continue to do so until the future.
Look at why Trump was elected , look back on all of the presdients of the past 25
years and see how they ultimaltey dropped the ball which led to Trump becoming
our president .
Jay
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Collapse SubdiscussionLizejeand Medina
Lizejeand Medina
10:34amJan 23 at 10:34am
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Hi Jay,
Great post. I think in our school system there is respect lacking. I have seen it one
too many times when the parents have their kids back when they are
disrespectful. No one is perfect, are kids aren’t especially. This is why it’s our job to
teach them how to act and when to act certain ways. We have evolved morally in
some ways, but some things are just common sense. We need to teach our kids
how to be respectful. Although, there are times that I feel some of the adults in the
school system should also show respect. My son for one, is in high school. When
he was a freshman, the school had messed up his schedule and did not give him a
required class, and gave him something he didn’t need. He told them this and they
didn’t listen. So this year, he would have to take the required class with freshman,
and then next year take this years required class. His counselor did not want to help
and kept sending him away . He said she was being very disrespectful, the next
time he went in she didn’t have time for him. For the most part, my son is very shy
and timid and never talks back. That’s where mom comes in, calls his school, she
stumbles her words when I asked her why he can’t have the required classes, she
says because he will be ahead, i said and if you don’t he will be behind, so you can
give him his classes or I can come in and we can have a meeting with everyone.
She gave him exactly what he needed. But, again, I agree, kids need to respect
their teachers, it makes for a smoother educational experience for everyone in the
class. I used to get annoyed when kids were disrupting the class and I’m trying to
get the information. It makes it hard for everyone. I have friends who are teachers,
and they go through alot having our kids all day, the least we can do as a society is
send them in with good mannerisms.
I also agree on your points about trump. I think in general, political affairs are dealt
with moral relativism. We all have our views on political agenda, and social issues.
There are democrats, republicans, liberals, socialists, etc. for a reason. Political
parties have different views, different morals that they abide by. He is definitely a
President who shares his own views and speaks his mind more bluntly than
presidents in the past and acts upon his moral views but then there are some issues
that he should be more sensitive on how they are approached and handled
differently. He is a successful business man though and his concerns are on the
money and economic end of things, which is good for our country. I think though,
that most presidents are moral relativists and it’s definitely shown during debates.
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Collapse SubdiscussionLizejeand Medina
Lizejeand Medina
YesterdayJan 22 at 10:53pm
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Hello Class and Professor,
1. I spoke with my husband about today’s moral values. His view on moral decay is
that there is a decay in certain areas, but in others not so much. It depends on the
situation. He used the topic of respect as an example. He believes that elders and
those in authority are not respected as much, or held to such a high standard. It is
not to say its a bad thing either. Years ago, we were all taught to respect your
elders and listen to those higher than you, no matter what. Presently, our views on
respect have changed. Kids and teenagers are smarter and have been expressing
their minds more. They really think about how a person is acting and saying, sort of
like they are reading the person. As a society, we still have respect and show it, but
not blindly. The younger generations question if a person should be respected, they
would like to know the reason why. If a person is cruel, or is doing something we
know is wrong, like commiting a crime, there will be no respect given. He believes in
respect given and respect earned. There are many people who think they should
have respect just because it was considered the moral thing to do. To others, it
doesn’t matter the age, gender, sex, authority position, if you want respect, you
need to show it as well. As a society, he believes the view of a moral value ,like
respect, has changed and evolved in not such a bad way, but again, it depends on
the situation, because there are also many kids who lack mannerisms. They talk
back too much and need to learn that there is a time and place for everything. Some
kids do need to learn when respect needs to be given.
I explained to my husband that moral relativism is “the idea that there is no
universal or absolute set of moral principles.”(McCombs School of Business, 2020)
He believes that it can be both beneficial and dangerous. He says it can be
beneficial because it brings up conversation, or opens debate. For example,
domestic violence was once acceptable amongst our society in regards to men
physically abusing their wives. However, that view has drastically changed, because
our moral views of violence changed and evolved for the better. Moral relativism
can be dangerous because, like history has proved, moral views can lead to horrific
outcomes, such as genocide, which then leads to war.
2. A subject matter that comes to mind when thinking about Rebecca Goldstein’s
quote is dog fighting. Dog fighting was legal in the United States for a longtime and
“became illegal in all 50 states in 1976.”(Good Pit Bulls Admin, Dec. 31, 2014). It
was cruel and horrific, with many of them fighting until their death. It is now
considered animal cruelty, when back then it was considered a gambling sport,
although in some places outside of the U.S, it is still legal. Most of our views
changed on how we look at and treat animals. Many of us view animal cruelty like
this as something immoral. If animals fight because of natural instincts that is one
thing, but making them fight for entertainment is just inhumane. This is not true for
everyone, or different cultures. I believe we are moral relativists because, as a
society, our cultures are mixed, and so our moral views on many topics are
different. For example, I strongly believe that dog fighting or any animal fighting is
cruel, but some cultures might still believe that it’s entertainment, or their way of
making money. Yes, dog fighting was banned in the U.S and elsewhere, but that
doesn’t mean that people do not have their own views on the topic. People stay
raise, sell, buy and train fighting dogs.
References
McCombs School of Business, (2020) Moral Relativism. Retrieved
by https://ethicsunwrapped.utexas.edu/glossary/moral-relativism (Links to an
external site.)
Good Pit Bulls Admin (2014, December 31.) History of Dog Fighting in United
States. Retrived from https://www.goodpitbulls.com/breed-bans/history-dog-fightingunited-states/ (Links to an external site.)
-Lizejeand
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Collapse SubdiscussionStacey Joseph
Stacey Joseph
1:11amJan 23 at 1:11am
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Hello Professor & Class,
After discussing the topic of moral values with my coworker, she would agree that
moral decay has taken precedence over morality and ethics mostly within the
younger generation today. Today’s generation is detached, and insensitive- thus,
lacking basic moral values- not feeling compassion or empathy, and seeing every
situation as a form of entertainment on social media etc. Amoy pointed out
insensitive social media memes, tweets, and videos that have went viral on the
internet for all the wrong reasons. Amoy pointed out senseless killings in the news
today, violence, and discrimination in some schools (she has two young boys, and a
teenage girl) “ I’ve heard it all and I would say that we definitely have a problem with
moral decay today” were her words exactly.
Moral relativism insinuates moral beliefs are based on facts or fiction that relate to
some part of life/society’s circumstances, situations, and views etc. and the
uncertainty of judgments regarding right and wrong associated with morality. As
stated in the e-text -Ethical relativism is a kind of skepticism about ethical
reasoning—it is skeptical of the idea that there are right and wrong answers to
ethical questions (MacKinnon & Fiala, 2018). Amoy felt that ultimately moral beliefs
are subjective form culture to culture, family to family etc., everyone sees morality or
what is moral differently – hence the reason we have such a problem with moral
decay; with society being so divided in so many ways and everyone having a
different standpoint to her its neither dangerous or necessarily beneficial. We can’t
control how others think, or their viewpoints, we can only monitor our own
actions/beliefs, and hope society gets safer. Neither beneficial because how would
society benefit from everyone thinking the same or having the same beliefs and not
being skeptical of others judgements- and agrees that everyone doesn’t have the
same or universal moral compass -Amoy…
Question 2
I believe President Trump takes an individual relativism (subjectivism) standpoint; a
mind frame that his thought process on a lot of things are neither right/wrong -it is
simply what HE believes. “I have my ethical views, and you have yours; neither my
views nor yours are better or more correct. I may believe that a particular war was
unjust, and you may believe it was just” (MacKinnon & Fiala, 2018). His actions in
office have emphasized his disregard for others’ opinions, or moral beliefs’- thus
mainly focusing on his own beliefs.
References
D. Fiala, B. MacKinnon. (2018) Ethics: Theory & Contemporary Issues. Chapter
Three: Ethical Relativism
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